It was brought up that possibly this skit was a little bias against the BSA. It always seems that way when you support the opposition. The only point that was made and they addressed this very clearly, was that if they are going to operate as a public entity and receive money from the government there are certain rules that need to be followed. Every time a troop leader indoctrinates a troop by sharing testimony around a camp fire they do it on my dime and that's the only reason I care, and I don't really that much.
Ok to be short and straight to the point I believe on this, if it is true that Boys Scouts are paid by every single one of us taxes, than they should not make any rules against nobody, because we all have paid for that.
I never knew a lot about BSA. I mostly thought they were a group of boys that liked to camp and got patches for any little thing they did. I really like the concept of young boys being involved in the community and having to achieve goals they set for themselves.
I think it builds up confidence and character, it is better to have young kids involved in something positive than to be out in the streets being badly influenced.
However, I don't think it's good to teach BSA to discriminate against individual who don't have the same morals and beliefs as they do. Especially when the orginization is publicly owned and recieveing tax payer money. I like the concept but don't agree with the rules they implement to be accepted as a boy scout.
The BSA is orginazation that I have nothing against. As a young child I enrolled in the program with some neighborhood kids. I only did it so i could hang out with my friends, go camping, and do all kinds of fun stuff. As time when on, my friends would progress and they would achieve different levels. All the while, i never even achieved a single badge. I did all the same things, learned all the same skills and went to all the same activities. I guess I just enjoyed the activity and worried less about filling out all the paperwork. I still know how do do everything, just dont have the patches on a sash to prove it. The thought of discrimination is kinda new because growing up in a prodominantly LDS area and me being raised Catholic, I was never rejected because of my religion. Infact, I was welcomed with open arms... Maybe because I was on the "try to convert via boyscouts list" But either way. it was a great way to learn new things and meet new people. I will probably enroll my children in it. I think if you enroll your children in the program and they are willing. They can accomplish things they want to and will get more out of it rather than if i forced them into it doing something they dont want to.
what a bunch of haters! the only real argument they had against BSA was the fact that they frowned on gay people. which yeah if you are using tax dollars you should try and include everyone there is no doubt about that. I am an eagle scout and ill tell you that its really hard to be able to achieve this award, but i can proudly put it on my resume and for the most part if there is only one thing that person will say is, " wow your an eagle scout!" it is very hard to get it is so worth it.
now as for the BSA being a cult, dang you caught us. i even heard someone say that they brain wash the kids. wow whoever said that you should probably learn to think before you say something so uneducated and pointless. the BSA is no more a cult than my jeep is worth 17 trillion dollars.
Like every episode, Penn and Teller have a bias, and the boy scouts was no different. On the other hand, the side they take, they absolutely bring great points. I am guessing my response will be similar to most every one else in class.
If the boy Scouts want to segregate, then they need become a private organization and stay out of the tax payers back pocket… I would say let the Mormon religion strictly fund the cause but I ‘am afraid that would bring up a whole other uproar among non Mormons… So what should they do? I would recommend the organization going back to the creed and motto that they were founded upon. If it wasn’t broken, why change it...
the boy scouts are a public organization there for shouldn't be bitches about who wants to be in scouts. especially religion wise, isn't the LDS all about how many people they can convert? why not allow other religions to be part of an organization like the BSA? now to bring up another thing discussed, they refuse to accept gays in the organization i totally agree with that, I wouldn't want my kid going camping with another gay little kid or even a gay scout master. personally I'd rather put my boy into a boxing club or soccer team. he can learn alot of important stuff at the gym, how to fight, accomplish goals to be someone someday, stay out of trouble fighting in the ring instead of the streets. Much better organization in my mind. There will never be a gay boxer thats a damn fact.
The boy scouts of america is public organization that want to unitfy people. I don't like to see our tax dollar into this BSA. This money suppose to go publice and able to acess to every who wish to to join regarding any race, sex, nationalities and gender. If this can prepare for strong nation and to build to great leaders. I'm agree with that. you should joins (your choice) but I think, BSA should allow access to everyone. The discramination have to stop. I did boy scouts in Thailand. I didnt' see to this become too big issue like here (U.S.) I'm raise in family that come between men and women so, I says I open to great probalibity of love and kindness of human kind. my questions is why have to be only LDS religious who donate money? And How can we define BSA as the public or private? Or we should have many mini BSA in every religious, Make it like small company and competitive.
I now have even more reasons to hate the BSA. I didn't even know about how they opposed anyone of a different sexual preference and Athiests. (did I spell that right?) They take our tax dollars! But the whole thing about the church, it offended me, FINALLY HUZZAH and ;) . But honestly I hated the Boyscouts when I was one and I hate them even more because of the fact that they take our money and still get to be prejidiced against anyone. You shouldn't get to take our money if you do that! And the supposed skills they teach, tieing knots, can anyone even remeber how to tie the knots from your boyscout days or even what they were for? I cant and I'm glad I wasn't an Eagle scout, their stupid game has gone on long enough if you want a kid who likes the wilderness, take them camping more. If you want a more rightious child, teach them the values you want them to have. Don't have this group of thugs and morons do it for you because they will fuck it up.
Fuck the boys scouts if they're going to act like that, especially if they are going to use public properties and operate as a public entity and receive money from our government. Why shouldn't they accept everyone without question, if everyone is paying them with their tax dollars?
So if this case and the government allows it, then I believe all gays and atheists should be tax exempt! seeing that their money isn't put to good use.
If the BSA is going to use tax dollars to run, then there should be no rules against who can and can not join. If they want to act like a private entity then they must have all the same problems that come with it. They can double dip, and therefor need to allow everyone to join , no matter religion, or sexuality, or go to a completely private. The funny thing is how the vast amount of members are the LDS church. Honestly I could care less about what church supports it, but I do find it funny that the same church who is so biased toward us non-lds people here in Utah is discriminating against people for scouts. Sad, but guess that is how the world works.
I wasn't aware that I as a Mormon, couldn't take a joke? I probably laugh the most at P&T's antics. I love it!
I was once in scouting and did achieve the Eagle Scout rank and it was pretty cool I'll have to admit. What I didn't know is that tax dollars go towards making BSA function and that is bullshit since they don't allow atheists or homosexuals to join. Being LDS there is a lot of fingers pointed at us for being anti gay and atheist and whatnot, but me personally; I don't care who you are. Come as you are and that really is a philosophy I believe in. I have gay and atheist friends and they're wonderful people. The guy friends probably would have enjoyed scouting if they cared about the outdoors and stuff, but oh well?
I can understand BSA's stance that someone who is either gay or atheist could potentially try to introduce their life choices into the lives of the scouts they're around or teach. So attempting to stop a potential problem is a good thing but; since it is an organization funded by taxes, everyone, regardless of circumstances should be allowed in. If there are problems with individuals and their lifestyles then by all means kick em out but don't shut them out of having an opportunity first.
I can barely remember the things I learned in the boy scouts. I remember the fun camping trips and things like that but I didn't know that the BSA organization doesn't allow certain people in their organization. If they do take our money then anyone should be allowed. About the fact that LDS people are mostly involved in Scouts I think I know throughout the world more boy scouts that have nothing to do with the LDS church. So I dont know about that. I can understand why the BSA wouldn't want gays and atheists in their organization because I wouldn't want my kids to come home telling me they were touched by a gay leader or they were taught that there is no God and there life really just doesn't have a point because there is nothing after this life. So I think it is a tough call.
I didn’t know the boy scouts were a private organization just as much as I didn’t know that they took public money. To be frank, I never really cared two cents about em'. I did have a short stint as a kid with the boy scouts as well. But like Penn said I was never really interested in what they did it was just fun be around the neighborhood kids.
We know discrimination is wrong no matter what the reason and to say you don’t want to change your policies because of some old ass piece of paper says you shouldn’t, is for a lack of a better word, retarded...lol and that’s why "right wings" and their organizations never are involved in anything innovative they walk around with their eyes closed with the bible as their walking sticks.. The Boy Scouts can do whatever they want but not on my fuckin dollar…but what can we do..? Nada, that’s what.
I’d rather go camping with an atheist and talk about science and have a gay fried join the trip for comedic relief and share funny stories about how people treat him, than camp with stuck up kid that thinks he’s better that everyone else…No offence if you’re a scout and happen to be a cool person..I’m sure the scouts do a lot of nice things and have best intentions but like most things it’s out of the control of the people that are actively involved and left up to the people with the money.
This episode of bullshit really bothered me. I am a big believer in BSA. They do so many things to help so many people. They do tons of community service! And to get your eagle scout takes a long time and is hard work. It can take up to like 5 years to achieve your eagle scout for some boys. Whoever thinks BSA is a bunch of crap then they need to look into it more and get real facts. Because if you think that teaching young boys to help others and learn helpful skills is bad then you must be crazy.
isaac aguilar, the beginning of your post was uneducated and inaccurate. "especially religion wise, isn't the LDS all about how many people they can convert? why not allow other religions to be part of an organization like the BSA?" 1. The LDS religion is NOT all about how many people they can convert but from an ignorant standpoint I guess I can see how naive people can think that. 2. The majority of the BSA members are NOT LDS. The BSA is supported by MOST Christian faiths not just by the LDS Religion, although they do support and fund the BSA. So to say that other religions should be allowed to join... well good, cause they are. The BSA is HUGE in the Midwest and in the east. Most of their "jamborees" and national meetings take place over there. Don’t you think if it was ALL LDS it would be here in UT?? It also goes to show that the LDS religion respects other faiths by supporting the BSA alongside other Christian faiths. I also agree that EVERY PERSON should be allowed to join the boy scouts. Gay, Straight, Atheist or not... Although they may not want to, because in addition to religion supporting the BSA, the BSA supports the concept of God. But that is beside the point. Segregation and discrimination due to differences is horrific, primitive, and ignorant and should not be allowed! We should be past that. I agree. Isaac aguilar, Please take my response to your post for what it is worth, it is not my intention to offend.
I am not a boyscout. I am a Mormon though and this episode bugged me a little bit. Camping, tying knots, etc is not for me, but I still think people should be allowed to be a part of this without to much hatred. Discrimination from the BSA is more of problem I would imagine on the smaller troops then on the big company as a whole.
Peoples own individual bias is the cause of a lot of problems these days. It would be hard to monitor every single troop in the world for discrimination. This is one of the big challenges today.
The other big challenge is the question of the use of tax dollars. Now I think that it is unfair to have your tax dollars going to something you don't believe in but that might always be the case. Someone always disagrees with something our taxes are going to. Within these movies we saw several things, like reparations, immigration, death penalty. There are also freeways, state promotion, historic preservation etc. Many things that are tax dollars go to that we may or may not agree with. I am not saying it is right, all I am saying is there are many things wrong with the way taxes work and attacking the BSA only is unfair. We need to find a system that works within all programs.
This program generalized scouts and for that it made me sad. Someone up above mentioned that they would rather go camping with an atheist and talk about science and a gay friend for comedic relief...then with a stuck up kid who thinks he is better then everyone. I think generalizing both scouts, atheists and gays like this is more harmful then good. Some gays aren't funny, some atheists don't like science and some scouts might not be stuck up. In fairness to the post I mentioned above he did acknowledge that not all scouts are stuck up but there still is a generalization out there about all different types of people that is incorrect and/or mislead.
I think its funny how people will say fuck the boy scouts for not letting gays in. Yet I bet those same people say would get upset if someone said fuck the military and fuck the troops. When the military doesn't allow you to be openly homosexual either. Personally I think that the boy scouts would probably be better off if they did let gays in. I think their just probably worried about boys getting it on while their out on their camping trips. I think most youth lose the enjoyment of being a boy scout when they hit their teenage years. What would be a nice alternative is more coed clubs in school so you can still do something at least if your straight or gay you can still mingle with both sexes. I think in the future things will get better I think as old people die and the newer generations of Americans step in our homophobia will decrease pretty rapidly.
Boy Scouts of America. This is something most of us grew up with or had at one time or another had an experience or similar to it. I was a Boy Scout myself many years ago and have had many unforgettable experiences that many won't ever have an opportunity to experience it. It's just sad to see things like this happening to the BSA but, it could happen to any other organization. It don't matter who you might be, but once discrimination or homosexual or anything as such is mentioned or associated with in any which way you're pretty much doomed. It's like white on rice. Open range for everyone to take a shot. Its too bad but it happens all the time. The fact that BSA is being funded by tax dollars but not following regulations is also a very terrible thing to have happen but, I'm sure it will be dealt with and with positive results immediately.
Could not agree more with Tygraff. That being said I feel like I can say little more than that. Boy scouts is a good thing. It teaches young boys a thing or two about the outdoors, but more importantly it provides them with an opportunity to hang out with other kids in a somewhat safe environment and have fun activities. If people are really bagging on the BSA they have much bigger problems to deal with. Nothing is wrong with scouting or how it is funded. Also the BSA is funded by fundraisers are individual contributions. You would be surprised to see the real numbers on how little the BSA is actually funded by the government.
I think that the boy scouts are a corporation that should be allowed to do what they want and exclude who they want. The fact they get federal aid should not be a factor. For example the banking systems are receiving aid but they are still allowed to deny my bank loan because I don’t have a down payment yet they are using my tax dollars.
I believe the BSA to be a great organization for young boys, it teaches leadership, teamwork and various fundamentals that they can use throughout their lives. As I read someone’s earlier post I would rather see them doing positive things for the community then out on the streets under a bad influence. However, I don’t agree with their discriminative views against homosexuals, all this does is teach the boys that it’s alright to discriminate against certain groups, this can lead them to maybe discriminate against other groups as well. Then again, you can’t really blame the entire BSA because as we saw on BULLSHIT not every single Boy Scout Troop discriminates, there were some who were more accepting, it is the top dogs within the BSA that need to step down and let someone with more sense run things.
Both of my brothers were in boy scouts and both received their eagle. (the highest award) as their sister i got to sit at home while they had to go to scouts every tuesday. they hated going at the time. But now, all the stories they have of stitches, pranks and the honor of swimming that mile in choppy, ice cold water, is completely worth all the complaining and "teeth pulling". I personally know that the scouts in my neighborhood would go and personally invite the "inactive" boys. They were watched over and cared for by the men in our ward. Unfortunantly there will always be those incidents in no matter what institution where a child will be taken advantage of.
I know that when I become a mother of boys I will make them go to scouts. I think it is a great opportunity for them to learn "manly" stuff and be around good influences. I have nothing against homosexuals but if I had a son that was in the impressonable age of 12-15 I would feel very uncomfortable sending him on a camp out with a gay leader. sorry to say that, but honestly I would! Its the same reason that male leaders are not allowed to be alone with the young girls in my ward. There are precautions that everyone has to take.
why attack the BSA? rediculous. if a person wants to be a part of it then let them. certain clubs and groups are discriminatory. thats the point of a club or a group. you are all gathered together becuase you feel the same ways on things. I thinks its funny how they attacked the LDS chrurch in this eppisode. why do that? so what if they support the BSA? so do a lot of other churches. why do people have such a problem with religion? people care about their religious rights and views just as much as a gay person cares about their rights and views. so, so what?
There are other issues to worry about than the Boy Scouts. Nobody forces you to send your children to the boy scouts, and while its wrong that they exclude homosexuals from their group, I think that is their right. They aren't an employer or an educator, they are a type of club. I think it is wrong to send your children to the scouts if they do not want to go, and if your son is gay, no amount of "manly" influences will change that.
I have always thought that boy scouts were for Gay boys, or at least that is how they figured out that they liked boys. I mean they spend all that time together outside where there is nothing around. It makes absolutely no sense that if your gay or athiest that you can't be a boy scout. If you want to be one most of the time your parents force you into it anyways. Any who I think the Boy Scouts is a cult now they brainwash against gay's and athiests and could possibly be creating the hate crimes. K maybe a little over the top but it could be true in some instances.
I was never aware of the fact that the boys scouts of america discriminated against pledges. I do understand though that, as the show included, that not every troop is like that but it seems a majority of them were. I mean c'mon....not letting boys participate with them because they are homosexual and hold no religious belief is absurd to me! It doesn't change the way a person acts and how they handle responsibility. And in response to a previous entry in here, someone stated: certain groups are discriminatory. that's the point of a club or group. My reply: No that is not! that is a clique created by self centered people who believe that their way is gold and anyother way isn't worth their time. Are they going to argue now that people who are part of groups such as glaad or baca can't be part of that because they aren't homosexual (glaad) and not a biker (baca)? Get real. These are groups that are out there trying to better society in which way possible by breaching across a strong message of positive energy. The boy scouts are doing the polar opposite. I don't understand how people can't comprehend that what the boy scouts of american are doing are wrong...well...wait...some people might just be as blind to anything different or uncommon as they are so i would understand your stance on the subject to a degree of course but do i agree with it? no. And as for them attacking the LDS church, I do understand that they aren't the only religious organizations part of it. I'm catholic and they have boy scouts as well. What i don't understand is how someone can't understand that it's someone else's opinion on information they gathered. Yes it was bias but it's Penn and Teller. That's what they do! And i understand that people care about their religious rights but guess what the HUGE difference is between religious rights and gay rights...religion has them! Through every state there are religions that can practice freely at temples, cathedrals and other institutions that practice religion. But as for the homosexual rights? well...if you say they have rights then it seems that someone hasn't been paying attention to the news. Gay marriage is not legal in most states so it is harder to argue that they have the same rights as most religions do. Before someone decides to argue on what they think is right...please, please, please have some form of evidence besides "your say" because right now it's appearing that that alone isn't much to rely on.
if the boy scouts recieve tax payer money than they should not be able to set limitions on enrollment. if the boy scouts want to continue to set limitions on who can be a member than they should not be a government funded organization. the boy scouts do promote volunteering and helping others, but that alone doesn't deserve government funding while remaining an exclusive organization.
Well we obviously know what position penn and teller take on the subject. Here's the scoop. The part about discriminating against gays and atheists I don't agree with. I don't agree with discriminating against anyone, unless you are an ass hole. What I don't agree with is everyone blaming the Mormons for being the biggest cause of it. It's true that they are one of the biggest contributors to the program, but that's because it teaches good values. Now I am not saying that there have never been members of the mormon church who haven't discriminated against anyone in the boyscouts cause I'm sure there have been, and probably many. But those people may be members of the church but they do not represent the church, so if you are going to get angry, get angry at those individuals, not a whole organization. And yes, by now you should have figured out that I am a member of the mormon church and proud of it. I was never a boy scout however, not for any particular reason except for it's boring. So if there is any reason that we should discriminate against the boy scout program I say we do it because of the plain and simple fact that it's boring.
Though I was never a boy scout, it seems to me that they teach young boys good skills and character that may help them later in life. The only thing that I have a problem with, is the fact that some units discriminate. Our military still discriminates against homosexuals. They have a policy called Don't Ask Don't Tell. You can not be homosexual and join the military. Having served in the military, I would bet my bank account that there are homosexuals serving in the military. Having said this, if homosexuals are capable of serving in the military, why wouldn't they be able to become a boy scout.
This one seems to be getting some heated posts on it. It seems to me that the subjects of Gay rights and the LDS religion have been a focal point of this class. I thought this class would be more about diversity since it is classified as a diversity course but I think its more about conflict and controversy. That’s all good though because it is probably more intriguing than simple “diversity”. Anyways the Boy Scouts…Hmm. I am seeing a lot of posts that are saying that the boy scouts are a publicly funded organization and we that are all paying for it through our tax dollars. I thought the boy scouts were a privately funded organization and I think for the most part they are. I’m not going to spend a bunch of time looking into this because I’m sure the vigilantes on this topic will do that just fine. So here’s my take, if the government lets the boy scouts use some of their property for nothing or next to nothing that doesn’t necessarily mean we are funding the boy scouts through our tax dollars. Have you ever borrowed something to a neighbor that you didn’t particularly care for or agree with? That doesn’t mean you are funding them or their beliefs or whatever. If government dollars are flowing into the coffers of the BSA than that’s a little different but come on is that really the truth? Especially if your speaking relative to government funding in other areas that are way more controversial. Some of all our money somehow makes it into the hands of those who we don’t want it to be in like oil money to terrorist’s etc. Why be so outraged about some contributions from so and so to so and so? Gays being excluded from the BSA is up to the BSA. Not all gay men are child molesters. Recently there has been a string of female and probably straight women teachers sleeping with their students. This has boggled my mind as well. I think if the BSA is a private organization let em set their own guidelines. If gays want to have a boy scout program of their own let em set their own guidelines. As long as it private who cares. Belong to it or start your own organization in any endeavor. This is the USA. It’s not against the law to start your own organization. I don’t condone hate towards any group but I don’t think its right to tell a certain organization that they have to include those who don’t subscribe to their ideology. Who’s going to tell Baca that they have to include child abusers into their group?
The discrimination on homosexuals is backward idea. The job of Boy Scouts is to teach every children social and survival skill, not to helping some religious freaks to hurting other "non-acceptable" people's feeling. If the Boy Scouts group still are be believe that standind with the religious sel-righteousness people. Than the Boy Scout of America is nothing but a club. Whay believing something so backward and treating some people like monsters?
Remember, "all men are been created equal". Or the people who don't agree on equality is NOT American.
I am an Eagle Scout, and honestly still think the boyscouts is a great place for kids to learn skills about life. Growing up here non-LDS, i never put the two together with boy scouts and the Mormon religion. We did hold all of our meetings at the local, but i just assumed it was for convenience. If the boy scouts discriminates against homosexuals and atheists, then that is there choice. This world has become more about being politically correct than actually tolerating certain beliefs. People need to understand it is there right to discriminate and should tolerate there choice. The boy scouts have every right to discriminate if they choose to not allow homosexuals and atheists. However, if they choose to discriminate, they should not be taking federal money for there budget. That was the only problem i had with the boy scouts. Federal money should be going toward stuff that does not discriminate against anybody. To this day, I still think the boy scouts was an awesome experience which taught me a lot about survival skills and every day life. If you are gay or atheist, then maybe the boy scouts aren't for you. So deal with it.
If the BSA is going to act private it need to be private, and public be public. if they're going to use public places and money they have to included anyone who wishes to join. i was in scouts for a while, i personally didn't think it was very enjoyable, and i'm happy i didn't stick with it because i would most like have just been kicked out... im agnostic/pastafarian, closer to the aethist side of things then think there is a god.
BSA. I'm went through the BSA and i got my eagle. It was a program that I had fun and learned a lot. I have nothing agaisnt the BSA. I don't agree that they should discriminant agianst people. When i was in scouts i never saw anyone get rejected from join. In fact we help people join. I know that scoutmasters can get a little pushy about scouts but it is because what they learned has help them. I think that Penn and Teller blew it out of context. Yeah there might be some truth but i think they most of it isn't true, and i believe that because of my experience i have had with Boy Scouts.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the BSA. I think it teaches boys how to make something of themselves and to go out and do they're part for their community. I don't think that the BSA discriminates people because my uncle is gay and he got his eagle. But I do agree if the BSA is discriminating then they shouldn't be allowed to using federal money, I think in that case you can't pick and chose. But Overall I think that the only thing the BSA discriminates on is women, but that makes sense because that's why there's girlscout. So we can have amazing cookies.
i really do not have that much of a problem with the boys scouts. I was signed up for it when i was younger but ended up not going. I believe that they have good intintions but their standards are a little hypocrytical. They tell them to treat everyone equally yet you cannot be gay to teach or join. i have attended boy scout camping trips with my friends before and the only thing that is a real problem for me is that they always say a prayer before they eat. not everyone is going to be the same religion so why say a prayer at all? they are just trying to brainwash everyone.
I did not like going to boy scouts. I hated wearing the uniforms. I had the thought of the uniforms being "gay". Go figure. I think though that all boys should be able to attend and be part of boy scouts, regardless of background. Whatever the issue may be, sexual orientation, religious orientation, etc. A boy is a boy and he should be allowed to do all the activities that are offered in the program.
I am an Eagle Scout. I agree that they do a lot of good for the community and for the boys that grow up learning all values that a scout believes. Is it wrong that they are taking government money to help run the scouting program? I don’t think so. Look at all those companies that took bail out money and put it in there own pockets. They were already making how many millions of dollars a year they didn’t need that money. So what is better giving money to the scout that help thousand so boy get off the street and keeping them out of trouble or give it to people that have millions of dollars in there own pocket? I would say give it to the scout were it dose some real good not into the piggy banks of greedy people
I grew up in the boy scouts and I loved it. All the activities and stuff it was awesome. For those saying why not include every religion well I think it is because they are trying to teach their children their beliefs and morals and the things they want their children to know and having other religions would go so well with that but then again its like that at school and that doesnt really affect it. I dont know about the whole tax thing but common people quit complaining. If you look it up you will realize that you are paying taxes for things that you will never in your life use. It sucks but thats the way it is.
I've never had a problem with the boys scouts, knowing that they aimed to build character and leadership sounded cool. I admit when I was younger I wanted to be one but never was because I never had time. After watching the video and hearing the rules they had such as no homosexuals and aetheist made me question why would they do such a thing, why can't everyone be given the same opportunities, just because someone is homosexual or aetheist doesn't mean that if they were a scout leader they would corrupt that teenager or become a pedophile. The main goal is to help teach kids to work as a team, and as individuals in the long run. Survival techniques and Leadership. Everyone should have that opportunity just like I former president decreed that No child should be left behind no matter what religion they are or there sexual orientation.
A long time ago I was a boy scout through my church. Even though I didn't get my eagle I still learned a lot and for the most part it kept me out of trouble until we all went to camp. With the whole taxes thing I would still pay for the BSA because we need to help our kids grow up and learn survival skills. I didnt have the chance to get my eagle because sports got into the way but I really don't like those people that say "you can't date my daughter inless you have your eagle" Scouts don't teach you how to get a date it teaches you how to survive a date if you are in the wilderness. It's a great program for young man though overall!!!
I was never involved in boy scouts when i was younger so i can't really speak on this topic from experience. However most of my friends were in boy scouts when they were younger and the impression i got was that it was a good program for young men and boys and taught them a lot of good things. I don't agree with the whole discrimination thing however i do think that the Penn and Teller were harder on the organization than they should have been.
Nothing wrong with boyscouts, in elementary i was in boy scouts and i loved it, we did super fun activitys and our scout leader was AWESOME! we leanred many things that help us later in life. i dont know why people say boy scouts are trained to frown upon people because i was never taught anything like that. maybe other boy scouts are... but ours were great, everyone got along and we had so much fun, we went camping, we learned how to survive on our own. but i definitely agree with some of the points penn and teller made how scouts shouldn't discriminate and should accepet anyone. cuz when i was in scouts we had many different races and we still got along.
hi all and welcome to the BSA anonymous section. to make this short as i still need to finish my other posts, i was a boy scout and they teach good values. i am Mormon and believe that being gay is not morally correct, but i also believe that it is your choice if that is how you wish to conduct yourself and it doesn't mean that you are an evil person, we can still be friends. i have had gay friends. for the BSA they have a very scary line that they need to walk. like Penn and teller said they get money from the government/you and me. therefore they should provide their services for all, but legal liabilities also would say that a gay boy or leader is a stigma that you don't want. it would also be far too easy for some boy to come out and make up a story about being toughed by a gay BSA member. note i am saying that someone would lie!! so then we would have non gay people suing the BSA as well as the gay and atheist groups. it would be an all round cluster. i do feel that it is a load of BS that atheists are not allowed into the BSA as a general rule and honestly i am not sure what to say about the gay side of this issue. if you are there to learn, come on in, but if you are there to push gay agendas or look for boyfriends. you can look somewhere else. maybe the best way to go about this is to have troops that don't care and will let anyone join in. i would think that most of the members of troops that meet in churches are going to be patrons of that particular church, so it is just another extension of the church in that aspect. all said and done, the things that you learn in the boy scouts are very useful for all people no matter who they are. BTW, i was never taught to hate anyone in scouts and i went to scouts in several different states as we moved around when i was a kid.
I hated scouts. I didn't mind the activities like camp outs and basketball; but there was no way I was showing up for service projects and basket weaving. As a young boy of scout age, the thought of any of those tasks was not a fun one. I had a lot of friends who their mom earned them their eagle scout award, and yet, such an award is highly accepted as a distinguishing feat that can earn someone a job or promotion. Really, it is all dumb. Scouts should be for anyone who wants to go, instead of just those who are pushed to go even if they don't want to. The "gay leader" issue, is harder, because of the uprising of pedophiles. True, not all gays are pedophiles, and true, not all pedophiles are gay. It just makes it tough when a male leader is attracted to males. I don't think they should not be allowed, but there should be some form of safety, not just with gays, but with every leader. Make sure the kids are safe.
Boy scouts. I think it is very important. Getting a bunch of boys together and letting them learn different skills just makes them turn into better men. I didn't know the goverment paid them my money. I'll have to look into that. I was always sad growing up that the boys got to go river rafting and us girls got to sing songs. Really where is the equality. I know there is a girl scouts but all they are good for is selling cookies. I think they should try to make the scouts unisex, make it a private funding foundation, and teach the kids skills that they'll use in their lives. Basket weaving? I don't think so. Starting a fire, yes.
Whatever the stance of people hold privately regarding the lifestyles of people they consider sinners, the fact of the matter is that the federal system cannot be dictated by the religious majority. Settled law affords people with protections and certain rights regardless of color, sex and yes, sexual orientation with regards to public institutions. The Boy Scouts receive government money as a result of a special congressional dispensation. The fact of the matter is that this makes the BSA a quasi-public body and as such, cannot discriminate in ways that are illegal for public entities.
It was brought up that possibly this skit was a little bias against the BSA. It always seems that way when you support the opposition. The only point that was made and they addressed this very clearly, was that if they are going to operate as a public entity and receive money from the government there are certain rules that need to be followed. Every time a troop leader indoctrinates a troop by sharing testimony around a camp fire they do it on my dime and that's the only reason I care, and I don't really that much.
ReplyDeleteOk to be short and straight to the point I believe on this, if it is true that Boys Scouts are paid by every single one of us taxes, than they should not make any rules against nobody, because we all have paid for that.
ReplyDeleteI never knew a lot about BSA. I mostly thought they were a group of boys that liked to camp and got patches for any little thing they did. I really like the concept of young boys being involved in the community and having to achieve goals they set for themselves.
ReplyDeleteI think it builds up confidence and character, it is better to have young kids involved in something positive than to be out in the streets being badly influenced.
However, I don't think it's good to teach BSA to discriminate against individual who don't have the same morals and beliefs as they do. Especially when the orginization is publicly owned and recieveing tax payer money. I like the concept but don't agree with the rules they implement to be accepted as a boy scout.
The BSA is orginazation that I have nothing against. As a young child I enrolled in the program with some neighborhood kids. I only did it so i could hang out with my friends, go camping, and do all kinds of fun stuff. As time when on, my friends would progress and they would achieve different levels. All the while, i never even achieved a single badge. I did all the same things, learned all the same skills and went to all the same activities. I guess I just enjoyed the activity and worried less about filling out all the paperwork. I still know how do do everything, just dont have the patches on a sash to prove it.
ReplyDeleteThe thought of discrimination is kinda new because growing up in a prodominantly LDS area and me being raised Catholic, I was never rejected because of my religion. Infact, I was welcomed with open arms... Maybe because I was on the "try to convert via boyscouts list" But either way. it was a great way to learn new things and meet new people. I will probably enroll my children in it. I think if you enroll your children in the program and they are willing. They can accomplish things they want to and will get more out of it rather than if i forced them into it doing something they dont want to.
what a bunch of haters! the only real argument they had against BSA was the fact that they frowned on gay people. which yeah if you are using tax dollars you should try and include everyone there is no doubt about that. I am an eagle scout and ill tell you that its really hard to be able to achieve this award, but i can proudly put it on my resume and for the most part if there is only one thing that person will say is, " wow your an eagle scout!" it is very hard to get it is so worth it.
ReplyDeletenow as for the BSA being a cult, dang you caught us. i even heard someone say that they brain wash the kids. wow whoever said that you should probably learn to think before you say something so uneducated and pointless. the BSA is no more a cult than my jeep is worth 17 trillion dollars.
Like every episode, Penn and Teller have a bias, and the boy scouts was no different. On the other hand, the side they take, they absolutely bring great points. I am guessing my response will be similar to most every one else in class.
ReplyDeleteIf the boy Scouts want to segregate, then they need become a private organization and stay out of the tax payers back pocket… I would say let the Mormon religion strictly fund the cause but I ‘am afraid that would bring up a whole other uproar among non Mormons… So what should they do? I would recommend the organization going back to the creed and motto that they were founded upon. If it wasn’t broken, why change it...
the boy scouts are a public organization there for shouldn't be bitches about who wants to be in scouts. especially religion wise, isn't the LDS all about how many people they can convert? why not allow other religions to be part of an organization like the BSA? now to bring up another thing discussed, they refuse to accept gays in the organization i totally agree with that, I wouldn't want my kid going camping with another gay little kid or even a gay scout master. personally I'd rather put my boy into a boxing club or soccer team. he can learn alot of important stuff at the gym, how to fight, accomplish goals to be someone someday, stay out of trouble fighting in the ring instead of the streets. Much better organization in my mind. There will never be a gay boxer thats a damn fact.
ReplyDeleteThe boy scouts of america is public organization that want to unitfy people. I don't like to see our tax dollar into this BSA. This money suppose to go publice and able to acess to every who wish to to join regarding any race, sex, nationalities and gender. If this can prepare for strong nation and to build to great leaders. I'm agree with that. you should joins (your choice) but I think, BSA should allow access to everyone. The discramination have to stop. I did boy scouts in Thailand. I didnt' see to this become too big issue like here (U.S.) I'm raise in family that come between men and women so, I says I open to great probalibity of love and kindness of human kind. my questions is why have to be only LDS religious who donate money? And How can we define BSA as the public or private?
ReplyDeleteOr we should have many mini BSA in every religious, Make it like small company and competitive.
I now have even more reasons to hate the BSA. I didn't even know about how they opposed anyone of a different sexual preference and Athiests. (did I spell that right?) They take our tax dollars! But the whole thing about the church, it offended me, FINALLY HUZZAH and ;) . But honestly I hated the Boyscouts when I was one and I hate them even more because of the fact that they take our money and still get to be prejidiced against anyone. You shouldn't get to take our money if you do that! And the supposed skills they teach, tieing knots, can anyone even remeber how to tie the knots from your boyscout days or even what they were for? I cant and I'm glad I wasn't an Eagle scout, their stupid game has gone on long enough if you want a kid who likes the wilderness, take them camping more. If you want a more rightious child, teach them the values you want them to have. Don't have this group of thugs and morons do it for you because they will fuck it up.
ReplyDeleteFuck the boys scouts if they're going to act like that, especially if they are going to use public properties and operate as a public entity and receive money from our government. Why shouldn't they accept everyone without question, if everyone is paying them with their tax dollars?
ReplyDeleteSo if this case and the government allows it, then I believe all gays and atheists should be tax exempt! seeing that their money isn't put to good use.
If the BSA is going to use tax dollars to run, then there should be no rules against who can and can not join. If they want to act like a private entity then they must have all the same problems that come with it. They can double dip, and therefor need to
ReplyDeleteallow everyone to join , no matter religion, or sexuality, or go to a completely private.
The funny thing is how the vast amount of members are the LDS church. Honestly I could care less about what church supports it, but I do find it funny that the same church who is so biased toward us non-lds people here in Utah is discriminating against people for scouts. Sad, but guess that is how the world works.
I wasn't aware that I as a Mormon, couldn't take a joke? I probably laugh the most at P&T's antics. I love it!
ReplyDeleteI was once in scouting and did achieve the Eagle Scout rank and it was pretty cool I'll have to admit. What I didn't know is that tax dollars go towards making BSA function and that is bullshit since they don't allow atheists or homosexuals to join.
Being LDS there is a lot of fingers pointed at us for being anti gay and atheist and whatnot, but me personally; I don't care who you are. Come as you are and that really is a philosophy I believe in. I have gay and atheist friends and they're wonderful people. The guy friends probably would have enjoyed scouting if they cared about the outdoors and stuff, but oh well?
I can understand BSA's stance that someone who is either gay or atheist could potentially try to introduce their life choices into the lives of the scouts they're around or teach. So attempting to stop a potential problem is a good thing but; since it is an organization funded by taxes, everyone, regardless of circumstances should be allowed in. If there are problems with individuals and their lifestyles then by all means kick em out but don't shut them out of having an opportunity first.
I can barely remember the things I learned in the boy scouts. I remember the fun camping trips and things like that but I didn't know that the BSA organization doesn't allow certain people in their organization. If they do take our money then anyone should be allowed. About the fact that LDS people are mostly involved in Scouts I think I know throughout the world more boy scouts that have nothing to do with the LDS church. So I dont know about that. I can understand why the BSA wouldn't want gays and atheists in their organization because I wouldn't want my kids to come home telling me they were touched by a gay leader or they were taught that there is no God and there life really just doesn't have a point because there is nothing after this life. So I think it is a tough call.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t know the boy scouts were a private organization just as much as I didn’t know that they took public money. To be frank, I never really cared two cents about em'. I did have a short stint as a kid with the boy scouts as well. But like Penn said I was never really interested in what they did it was just fun be around the neighborhood kids.
ReplyDeleteWe know discrimination is wrong no matter what the reason and to say you don’t want to change your policies because of some old ass piece of paper says you shouldn’t, is for a lack of a better word, retarded...lol and that’s why "right wings" and their organizations never are involved in anything innovative they walk around with their eyes closed with the bible as their walking sticks.. The Boy Scouts can do whatever they want but not on my fuckin dollar…but what can we do..? Nada, that’s what.
I’d rather go camping with an atheist and talk about science and have a gay fried join the trip for comedic relief and share funny stories about how people treat him, than camp with stuck up kid that thinks he’s better that everyone else…No offence if you’re a scout and happen to be a cool person..I’m sure the scouts do a lot of nice things and have best intentions but like most things it’s out of the control of the people that are actively involved and left up to the people with the money.
This episode of bullshit really bothered me. I am a big believer in BSA. They do so many things to help so many people. They do tons of community service! And to get your eagle scout takes a long time and is hard work. It can take up to like 5 years to achieve your eagle scout for some boys. Whoever thinks BSA is a bunch of crap then they need to look into it more and get real facts. Because if you think that teaching young boys to help others and learn helpful skills is bad then you must be crazy.
ReplyDeleteisaac aguilar, the beginning of your post was uneducated and inaccurate.
ReplyDelete"especially religion wise, isn't the LDS all about how many people they can convert? why not allow other religions to be part of an organization like the BSA?"
1. The LDS religion is NOT all about how many people they can convert but from an ignorant standpoint I guess I can see how naive people can think that.
2. The majority of the BSA members are NOT LDS. The BSA is supported by MOST Christian faiths not just by the LDS Religion, although they do support and fund the BSA. So to say that other religions should be allowed to join... well good, cause they are. The BSA is HUGE in the Midwest and in the east. Most of their "jamborees" and national meetings take place over there. Don’t you think if it was ALL LDS it would be here in UT?? It also goes to show that the LDS religion respects other faiths by supporting the BSA alongside other Christian faiths.
I also agree that EVERY PERSON should be allowed to join the boy scouts. Gay, Straight, Atheist or not... Although they may not want to, because in addition to religion supporting the BSA, the BSA supports the concept of God. But that is beside the point. Segregation and discrimination due to differences is horrific, primitive, and ignorant and should not be allowed! We should be past that. I agree.
Isaac aguilar, Please take my response to your post for what it is worth, it is not my intention to offend.
I am not a boyscout. I am a Mormon though and this episode bugged me a little bit. Camping, tying knots, etc is not for me, but I still think people should be allowed to be a part of this without to much hatred. Discrimination from the BSA is more of problem I would imagine on the smaller troops then on the big company as a whole.
ReplyDeletePeoples own individual bias is the cause of a lot of problems these days. It would be hard to monitor every single troop in the world for discrimination. This is one of the big challenges today.
The other big challenge is the question of the use of tax dollars. Now I think that it is unfair to have your tax dollars going to something you don't believe in but that might always be the case. Someone always disagrees with something our taxes are going to. Within these movies we saw several things, like reparations, immigration, death penalty. There are also freeways, state promotion, historic preservation etc. Many things that are tax dollars go to that we may or may not agree with. I am not saying it is right, all I am saying is there are many things wrong with the way taxes work and attacking the BSA only is unfair. We need to find a system that works within all programs.
This program generalized scouts and for that it made me sad. Someone up above mentioned that they would rather go camping with an atheist and talk about science and a gay friend for comedic relief...then with a stuck up kid who thinks he is better then everyone. I think generalizing both scouts, atheists and gays like this is more harmful then good. Some gays aren't funny, some atheists don't like science and some scouts might not be stuck up. In fairness to the post I mentioned above he did acknowledge that not all scouts are stuck up but there still is a generalization out there about all different types of people that is incorrect and/or mislead.
I think its funny how people will say fuck the boy scouts for not letting gays in. Yet I bet those same people say would get upset if someone said fuck the military and fuck the troops. When the military doesn't allow you to be openly homosexual either. Personally I think that the boy scouts would probably be better off if they did let gays in. I think their just probably worried about boys getting it on while their out on their camping trips. I think most youth lose the enjoyment of being a boy scout when they hit their teenage years. What would be a nice alternative is more coed clubs in school so you can still do something at least if your straight or gay you can still mingle with both sexes. I think in the future things will get better I think as old people die and the newer generations of Americans step in our homophobia will decrease pretty rapidly.
ReplyDeleteBoy Scouts of America. This is something most of us grew up with or had at one time or another had an experience or similar to it. I was a Boy Scout myself many years ago and have had many unforgettable experiences that many won't ever have an opportunity to experience it. It's just sad to see things like this happening to the BSA but, it could happen to any other organization. It don't matter who you might be, but once discrimination or homosexual or anything as such is mentioned or associated with in any which way you're pretty much doomed. It's like white on rice. Open range for everyone to take a shot. Its too bad but it happens all the time. The fact that BSA is being funded by tax dollars but not following regulations is also a very terrible thing to have happen but, I'm sure it will be dealt with and with positive results immediately.
ReplyDeleteCould not agree more with Tygraff. That being said I feel like I can say little more than that. Boy scouts is a good thing. It teaches young boys a thing or two about the outdoors, but more importantly it provides them with an opportunity to hang out with other kids in a somewhat safe environment and have fun activities. If people are really bagging on the BSA they have much bigger problems to deal with. Nothing is wrong with scouting or how it is funded. Also the BSA is funded by fundraisers are individual contributions. You would be surprised to see the real numbers on how little the BSA is actually funded by the government.
ReplyDeleteI think that the boy scouts are a corporation that should be allowed to do what they want and exclude who they want. The fact they get federal aid should not be a factor. For example the banking systems are receiving aid but they are still allowed to deny my bank loan because I don’t have a down payment yet they are using my tax dollars.
ReplyDeleteI believe the BSA to be a great organization for young boys, it teaches leadership, teamwork and various fundamentals that they can use throughout their lives. As I read someone’s earlier post I would rather see them doing positive things for the community then out on the streets under a bad influence. However, I don’t agree with their discriminative views against homosexuals, all this does is teach the boys that it’s alright to discriminate against certain groups, this can lead them to maybe discriminate against other groups as well. Then again, you can’t really blame the entire BSA because as we saw on BULLSHIT not every single Boy Scout Troop discriminates, there were some who were more accepting, it is the top dogs within the BSA that need to step down and let someone with more sense run things.
ReplyDeleteBoth of my brothers were in boy scouts and both received their eagle. (the highest award) as their sister i got to sit at home while they had to go to scouts every tuesday. they hated going at the time. But now, all the stories they have of stitches, pranks and the honor of swimming that mile in choppy, ice cold water, is completely worth all the complaining and "teeth pulling". I personally know that the scouts in my neighborhood would go and personally invite the "inactive" boys. They were watched over and cared for by the men in our ward. Unfortunantly there will always be those incidents in no matter what institution where a child will be taken advantage of.
ReplyDeleteI know that when I become a mother of boys I will make them go to scouts. I think it is a great opportunity for them to learn "manly" stuff and be around good influences. I have nothing against homosexuals but if I had a son that was in the impressonable age of 12-15 I would feel very uncomfortable sending him on a camp out with a gay leader. sorry to say that, but honestly I would! Its the same reason that male leaders are not allowed to be alone with the young girls in my ward. There are precautions that everyone has to take.
why attack the BSA? rediculous. if a person wants to be a part of it then let them. certain clubs and groups are discriminatory. thats the point of a club or a group. you are all gathered together becuase you feel the same ways on things. I thinks its funny how they attacked the LDS chrurch in this eppisode. why do that? so what if they support the BSA? so do a lot of other churches. why do people have such a problem with religion? people care about their religious rights and views just as much as a gay person cares about their rights and views.
ReplyDeleteso, so what?
There are other issues to worry about than the Boy Scouts. Nobody forces you to send your children to the boy scouts, and while its wrong that they exclude homosexuals from their group, I think that is their right. They aren't an employer or an educator, they are a type of club. I think it is wrong to send your children to the scouts if they do not want to go, and if your son is gay, no amount of "manly" influences will change that.
ReplyDeleteI have always thought that boy scouts were for Gay boys, or at least that is how they figured out that they liked boys. I mean they spend all that time together outside where there is nothing around. It makes absolutely no sense that if your gay or athiest that you can't be a boy scout. If you want to be one most of the time your parents force you into it anyways. Any who I think the Boy Scouts is a cult now they brainwash against gay's and athiests and could possibly be creating the hate crimes. K maybe a little over the top but it could be true in some instances.
ReplyDeleteI was never aware of the fact that the boys scouts of america discriminated against pledges. I do understand though that, as the show included, that not every troop is like that but it seems a majority of them were. I mean c'mon....not letting boys participate with them because they are homosexual and hold no religious belief is absurd to me! It doesn't change the way a person acts and how they handle responsibility.
ReplyDeleteAnd in response to a previous entry in here, someone stated: certain groups are discriminatory. that's the point of a club or group. My reply: No that is not! that is a clique created by self centered people who believe that their way is gold and anyother way isn't worth their time. Are they going to argue now that people who are part of groups such as glaad or baca can't be part of that because they aren't homosexual (glaad) and not a biker (baca)? Get real. These are groups that are out there trying to better society in which way possible by breaching across a strong message of positive energy. The boy scouts are doing the polar opposite. I don't understand how people can't comprehend that what the boy scouts of american are doing are wrong...well...wait...some people might just be as blind to anything different or uncommon as they are so i would understand your stance on the subject to a degree of course but do i agree with it? no. And as for them attacking the LDS church, I do understand that they aren't the only religious organizations part of it. I'm catholic and they have boy scouts as well. What i don't understand is how someone can't understand that it's someone else's opinion on information they gathered. Yes it was bias but it's Penn and Teller. That's what they do! And i understand that people care about their religious rights but guess what the HUGE difference is between religious rights and gay rights...religion has them! Through every state there are religions that can practice freely at temples, cathedrals and other institutions that practice religion. But as for the homosexual rights? well...if you say they have rights then it seems that someone hasn't been paying attention to the news. Gay marriage is not legal in most states so it is harder to argue that they have the same rights as most religions do. Before someone decides to argue on what they think is right...please, please, please have some form of evidence besides "your say" because right now it's appearing that that alone isn't much to rely on.
if the boy scouts recieve tax payer money than they should not be able to set limitions on enrollment. if the boy scouts want to continue to set limitions on who can be a member than they should not be a government funded organization. the boy scouts do promote volunteering and helping others, but that alone doesn't deserve government funding while remaining an exclusive organization.
ReplyDeleteWell we obviously know what position penn and teller take on the subject. Here's the scoop. The part about discriminating against gays and atheists I don't agree with. I don't agree with discriminating against anyone, unless you are an ass hole. What I don't agree with is everyone blaming the Mormons for being the biggest cause of it. It's true that they are one of the biggest contributors to the program, but that's because it teaches good values. Now I am not saying that there have never been members of the mormon church who haven't discriminated against anyone in the boyscouts cause I'm sure there have been, and probably many. But those people may be members of the church but they do not represent the church, so if you are going to get angry, get angry at those individuals, not a whole organization. And yes, by now you should have figured out that I am a member of the mormon church and proud of it. I was never a boy scout however, not for any particular reason except for it's boring. So if there is any reason that we should discriminate against the boy scout program I say we do it because of the plain and simple fact that it's boring.
ReplyDeleteThough I was never a boy scout, it seems to me that they teach young boys good skills and character that may help them later in life. The only thing that I have a problem with, is the fact that some units discriminate. Our military still discriminates against homosexuals. They have a policy called Don't Ask Don't Tell. You can not be homosexual and join the military. Having served in the military, I would bet my bank account that there are homosexuals serving in the military. Having said this, if homosexuals are capable of serving in the military, why wouldn't they be able to become a boy scout.
ReplyDeleteThis one seems to be getting some heated posts on it. It seems to me that the subjects of Gay rights and the LDS religion have been a focal point of this class. I thought this class would be more about diversity since it is classified as a diversity course but I think its more about conflict and controversy. That’s all good though because it is probably more intriguing than simple “diversity”. Anyways the Boy Scouts…Hmm. I am seeing a lot of posts that are saying that the boy scouts are a publicly funded organization and we that are all paying for it through our tax dollars. I thought the boy scouts were a privately funded organization and I think for the most part they are. I’m not going to spend a bunch of time looking into this because I’m sure the vigilantes on this topic will do that just fine. So here’s my take, if the government lets the boy scouts use some of their property for nothing or next to nothing that doesn’t necessarily mean we are funding the boy scouts through our tax dollars. Have you ever borrowed something to a neighbor that you didn’t particularly care for or agree with? That doesn’t mean you are funding them or their beliefs or whatever. If government dollars are flowing into the coffers of the BSA than that’s a little different but come on is that really the truth? Especially if your speaking relative to government funding in other areas that are way more controversial. Some of all our money somehow makes it into the hands of those who we don’t want it to be in like oil money to terrorist’s etc. Why be so outraged about some contributions from so and so to so and so? Gays being excluded from the BSA is up to the BSA. Not all gay men are child molesters. Recently there has been a string of female and probably straight women teachers sleeping with their students. This has boggled my mind as well. I think if the BSA is a private organization let em set their own guidelines. If gays want to have a boy scout program of their own let em set their own guidelines. As long as it private who cares. Belong to it or start your own organization in any endeavor. This is the USA. It’s not against the law to start your own organization. I don’t condone hate towards any group but I don’t think its right to tell a certain organization that they have to include those who don’t subscribe to their ideology. Who’s going to tell Baca that they have to include child abusers into their group?
ReplyDeleteThe discrimination on homosexuals is backward idea. The job of Boy Scouts is to teach every children social and survival skill, not to helping some religious freaks to hurting other "non-acceptable" people's feeling. If the Boy Scouts group still are be believe that standind with the religious sel-righteousness people. Than the Boy Scout of America is nothing but a club. Whay believing something so backward and treating some people like monsters?
ReplyDeleteRemember, "all men are been created equal". Or the people who don't agree on equality is NOT American.
I am an Eagle Scout, and honestly still think the boyscouts is a great place for kids to learn skills about life. Growing up here non-LDS, i never put the two together with boy scouts and the Mormon religion. We did hold all of our meetings at the local, but i just assumed it was for convenience. If the boy scouts discriminates against homosexuals and atheists, then that is there choice. This world has become more about being politically correct than actually tolerating certain beliefs. People need to understand it is there right to discriminate and should tolerate there choice. The boy scouts have every right to discriminate if they choose to not allow homosexuals and atheists. However, if they choose to discriminate, they should not be taking federal money for there budget. That was the only problem i had with the boy scouts. Federal money should be going toward stuff that does not discriminate against anybody. To this day, I still think the boy scouts was an awesome experience which taught me a lot about survival skills and every day life. If you are gay or atheist, then maybe the boy scouts aren't for you. So deal with it.
ReplyDeleteIf the BSA is going to act private it need to be private, and public be public. if they're going to use public places and money they have to included anyone who wishes to join. i was in scouts for a while, i personally didn't think it was very enjoyable, and i'm happy i didn't stick with it because i would most like have just been kicked out... im agnostic/pastafarian, closer to the aethist side of things then think there is a god.
ReplyDeleteBSA. I'm went through the BSA and i got my eagle. It was a program that I had fun and learned a lot. I have nothing agaisnt the BSA. I don't agree that they should discriminant agianst people. When i was in scouts i never saw anyone get rejected from join. In fact we help people join. I know that scoutmasters can get a little pushy about scouts but it is because what they learned has help them. I think that Penn and Teller blew it out of context. Yeah there might be some truth but i think they most of it isn't true, and i believe that because of my experience i have had with Boy Scouts.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there is anything wrong with the BSA. I think it teaches boys how to make something of themselves and to go out and do they're part for their community. I don't think that the BSA discriminates people because my uncle is gay and he got his eagle. But I do agree if the BSA is discriminating then they shouldn't be allowed to using federal money, I think in that case you can't pick and chose. But Overall I think that the only thing the BSA discriminates on is women, but that makes sense because that's why there's girlscout. So we can have amazing cookies.
ReplyDeletei really do not have that much of a problem with the boys scouts. I was signed up for it when i was younger but ended up not going. I believe that they have good intintions but their standards are a little hypocrytical. They tell them to treat everyone equally yet you cannot be gay to teach or join. i have attended boy scout camping trips with my friends before and the only thing that is a real problem for me is that they always say a prayer before they eat. not everyone is going to be the same religion so why say a prayer at all? they are just trying to brainwash everyone.
ReplyDeleteI did not like going to boy scouts. I hated wearing the uniforms. I had the thought of the uniforms being "gay". Go figure.
ReplyDeleteI think though that all boys should be able to attend and be part of boy scouts, regardless of background. Whatever the issue may be, sexual orientation, religious orientation, etc. A boy is a boy and he should be allowed to do all the activities that are offered in the program.
I am an Eagle Scout. I agree that they do a lot of good for the community and for the boys that grow up learning all values that a scout believes. Is it wrong that they are taking government money to help run the scouting program? I don’t think so. Look at all those companies that took bail out money and put it in there own pockets. They were already making how many millions of dollars a year they didn’t need that money. So what is better giving money to the scout that help thousand so boy get off the street and keeping them out of trouble or give it to people that have millions of dollars in there own pocket? I would say give it to the scout were it dose some real good not into the piggy banks of greedy people
ReplyDeleteI grew up in the boy scouts and I loved it. All the activities and stuff it was awesome. For those saying why not include every religion well I think it is because they are trying to teach their children their beliefs and morals and the things they want their children to know and having other religions would go so well with that but then again its like that at school and that doesnt really affect it. I dont know about the whole tax thing but common people quit complaining. If you look it up you will realize that you are paying taxes for things that you will never in your life use. It sucks but thats the way it is.
ReplyDeleteI've never had a problem with the boys scouts, knowing that they aimed to build character and leadership sounded cool. I admit when I was younger I wanted to be one but never was because I never had time. After watching the video and hearing the rules they had such as no homosexuals and aetheist made me question why would they do such a thing, why can't everyone be given the same opportunities, just because someone is homosexual or aetheist doesn't mean that if they were a scout leader they would corrupt that teenager or become a pedophile. The main goal is to help teach kids to work as a team, and as individuals in the long run. Survival techniques and Leadership. Everyone should have that opportunity just like I former president decreed that No child should be left behind no matter what religion they are or there sexual orientation.
ReplyDeleteA long time ago I was a boy scout through my church. Even though I didn't get my eagle I still learned a lot and for the most part it kept me out of trouble until we all went to camp. With the whole taxes thing I would still pay for the BSA because we need to help our kids grow up and learn survival skills. I didnt have the chance to get my eagle because sports got into the way but I really don't like those people that say "you can't date my daughter inless you have your eagle" Scouts don't teach you how to get a date it teaches you how to survive a date if you are in the wilderness. It's a great program for young man though overall!!!
ReplyDeleteI was never involved in boy scouts when i was younger so i can't really speak on this topic from experience. However most of my friends were in boy scouts when they were younger and the impression i got was that it was a good program for young men and boys and taught them a lot of good things. I don't agree with the whole discrimination thing however i do think that the Penn and Teller were harder on the organization than they should have been.
ReplyDeleteNothing wrong with boyscouts, in elementary i was in boy scouts and i loved it, we did super fun activitys and our scout leader was AWESOME! we leanred many things that help us later in life. i dont know why people say boy scouts are trained to frown upon people because i was never taught anything like that. maybe other boy scouts are... but ours were great, everyone got along and we had so much fun, we went camping, we learned how to survive on our own.
ReplyDeletebut i definitely agree with some of the points penn and teller made how scouts shouldn't discriminate and should accepet anyone. cuz when i was in scouts we had many different races and we still got along.
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ReplyDeletehi all and welcome to the BSA anonymous section. to make this short as i still need to finish my other posts, i was a boy scout and they teach good values. i am Mormon and believe that being gay is not morally correct, but i also believe that it is your choice if that is how you wish to conduct yourself and it doesn't mean that you are an evil person, we can still be friends. i have had gay friends. for the BSA they have a very scary line that they need to walk. like Penn and teller said they get money from the government/you and me. therefore they should provide their services for all, but legal liabilities also would say that a gay boy or leader is a stigma that you don't want. it would also be far too easy for some boy to come out and make up a story about being toughed by a gay BSA member. note i am saying that someone would lie!! so then we would have non gay people suing the BSA as well as the gay and atheist groups. it would be an all round cluster. i do feel that it is a load of BS that atheists are not allowed into the BSA as a general rule and honestly i am not sure what to say about the gay side of this issue. if you are there to learn, come on in, but if you are there to push gay agendas or look for boyfriends. you can look somewhere else. maybe the best way to go about this is to have troops that don't care and will let anyone join in. i would think that most of the members of troops that meet in churches are going to be patrons of that particular church, so it is just another extension of the church in that aspect. all said and done, the things that you learn in the boy scouts are very useful for all people no matter who they are. BTW, i was never taught to hate anyone in scouts and i went to scouts in several different states as we moved around when i was a kid.
ReplyDeleteI hated scouts. I didn't mind the activities like camp outs and basketball; but there was no way I was showing up for service projects and basket weaving. As a young boy of scout age, the thought of any of those tasks was not a fun one. I had a lot of friends who their mom earned them their eagle scout award, and yet, such an award is highly accepted as a distinguishing feat that can earn someone a job or promotion. Really, it is all dumb. Scouts should be for anyone who wants to go, instead of just those who are pushed to go even if they don't want to. The "gay leader" issue, is harder, because of the uprising of pedophiles. True, not all gays are pedophiles, and true, not all pedophiles are gay. It just makes it tough when a male leader is attracted to males. I don't think they should not be allowed, but there should be some form of safety, not just with gays, but with every leader. Make sure the kids are safe.
ReplyDeleteBoy scouts. I think it is very important. Getting a bunch of boys together and letting them learn different skills just makes them turn into better men. I didn't know the goverment paid them my money. I'll have to look into that. I was always sad growing up that the boys got to go river rafting and us girls got to sing songs. Really where is the equality. I know there is a girl scouts but all they are good for is selling cookies. I think they should try to make the scouts unisex, make it a private funding foundation, and teach the kids skills that they'll use in their lives. Basket weaving? I don't think so. Starting a fire, yes.
ReplyDeleteWhatever the stance of people hold privately regarding the lifestyles of people they consider sinners, the fact of the matter is that the federal system cannot be dictated by the religious majority. Settled law affords people with protections and certain rights regardless of color, sex and yes, sexual orientation with regards to public institutions. The Boy Scouts receive government money as a result of a special congressional dispensation. The fact of the matter is that this makes the BSA a quasi-public body and as such, cannot discriminate in ways that are illegal for public entities.
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